Bacteria in a Bottle: Snake Oil or Worth Trusting?
Category: Reef Enthusiast, Reef Junkie, Tank Dabbler
Tagged as: ammonia, bacteria in a bottle, dr tim, myth busting, nitrate cycle, nitrifying bacteria, nitrogen cycle, snake oil, Tim Hovenac
Tagged as: ammonia, bacteria in a bottle, dr tim, myth busting, nitrate cycle, nitrifying bacteria, nitrogen cycle, snake oil, Tim Hovenac
One of the most polarizing discussion in the saltwater tank world is the use of bacteria in a bottle products to speed up the initial nitrogen cycle. Some people swear by them, other people cry foul and claim they are all snake oil.
To find out the facts, I brought in a Ph.D in Microbiology, Dr. Tim Hovanec and ran an experiment of my own.
Links in this video:
The stuff I used in the video: http://mrswt.wpenginepowered.com/site/4ozOAO/
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Great interview, Mark. I learned more in the first 10 minutes of this video than I have learned in a while about this hobby.
I would have liked to seen a more comprehensive experiment that includes a “control tank”. Being able to compare results side-by-side with a tank cycle that did not include Dr. Tim’s bacteria would have been convincing. While I am a proponent of this method, I was left wondering what the cycle results would have been in a 130 gallon tank with only 2 clownfish, but minus the added bacteria. With such a small number of fish with a larger water volume, it’s possible similar ammonia/nitrite results could be found without using the bacteria (I doubt it, but I’m playing devil’s advocate).
Thanks for the video. Great editing… I believe this is what sets you apart from other video blogs.
James…great comment. While I didn’t setup another 130G tank as a “control” here’s what I would hypothesize would have happened:
– ammonia levels would rise higher and would take longer (probably a week) to come back down
– same with nitrite levels
I’d expect the control tank to experience more of a “traditional” cycle in terms of levels and time. Given that fact, I’d never cycle a tank (even a larger one) with fish and no bacteria. I couldn’t stand putting the fish through the cycle OR potentially leaving people with that it is ok to cycle a tank that way.
When I first started in the hobby – 1980’s – everyone cycled their tank with damsel fish and thought nothing of it. I remember being 10 yrs old and eagerly waiting for my 75G to cycle so that I could go get other fish. When you are 10 yrs old, a month is a LONG time!
What would happen if you only put enough bacteria in for say 30 gallons, but in a tank that was 60 or 100 gallons? Would it simply take longer to cycle?
Some say just add sugar in your tank and you’r done..no need for waiting nor adding dose of bacteria….
Nicole…that is correct. The cycle would take longer since you have to wait for more bacteria to build up.
Hey mark when are you gonna treat us with a review on your vortech pumps! I cant decide if i want one or not.
Thanks,
Ryan
I have learned so much for your videos. I really enjoy the sceince behind it all so this particular one was a treat. I hav to know whats the deal with the damels? is this a personal thing or im i missing something?
Setting up a new 65 gal tank , looking forward to putting the dead rock and the bacteria!
another excellent vid Mark , please keep em coming!
Hi mark,
Did Dr Tim recommend doing the cycle with the skimmer on?
What’s the Damsel issue? Isn’t a clown a Damsel?
Mark releases a video about bacteria in a bottle this morning and I receive my shipment from Dr. Tim this afternoon. Coincidence…perhaps. I hope to put it to the test soon.
Hey Mark!
I saw you at MAX today hahaha! And when I watched this video I was convinced to try it out. My first purchase at the Marine expo today was, you guessed it, Dr. Tim’s creation (but for a 30 Gallon)! I asked Dr. Tim personally what he thought would be okay for my tank to cycle with and he told me that I can do exactly what you did and use fish instead of the ammonia in a bottle (which was recommended on the website for 30 Gallons or less). Anyway, I will be using this to shorten my cycle time and am very excited about the product. Great job on your video once again, Kudos!
Joe, read this. Clowns and damsels are part of the same family, but I don’t consider them the same as clowns are usually easy to catch and aren’t as aggressive.
James…track your cycle in your new tank with Dr. Tim’s stuff and let us know how it goes. I’ll be interested to see the results.
Ian..make sure you use a very small fish – like a single clown or a small goby. I’d rather see you use the ammonia as I wouldn’t want to put the fish through any kind of notable cycle.
Patrick…Dr. Tim says no…leave your skimmer off for a couple of days.
Roger…read this
Ryan…I’ll get that review knocked out in April.
Sugar can help certain types of bacteria grow – once it is established, BUT just adding sugar doesn’t make bacteria grow if there is no bacteria there. Also, the nitrifying bacteria wouldn’t use sugar as an energy source. I asked Dr. Tim about it today.
Nice information, why no to damsels? Usually a lot of people cycle their tanks using damsels.
Adnan…read this
Hi Mark … i decided to order the solution from dr.tim since ur video was more than enough prove that it works … this is my first saltwater tank its a 60 gallon, is there an article that u have written or video on the things u need to start it up? also why do we need a sump? So LEDs good or not ? thanks for all ur help and the videos are very educational …
So why the spike at all? What is the change between the first day and the forth day after the spike? I would think you’d added enough bacteria to handle anything and keep the spike down.
Also, with the amonia drops – do you see the same spike? Do you add the fish just after the spike? do you keep adding the amonia drops until you get the chance to get some fish after the spike?
Is this stuff of any use to a tank that’s been up for 6 months? Older?
Just interested in the workings…
what a pity! no international shipping 🙁
@Siavash , try borderlinx.com or a similar service you can get stuff any where in the world this way, this is what we are doing here in Saudi Arabia. Although price becomes sometimes double, but what to do we are addicts!!
Great information. Love the science of it! “There’s no need to have a fish less tank.”
Sailfin Mollies are great inexpensive fish to start with. They do great in a reef environment once they’ve been acclimated to salt water.
Great show Mark, when i got my first tank i spent 4 weeks with an empty tank and it sucked so much :D, keep up the good work!
Siavash Rahimi April 3, 2011 at 4:41 pm
what a pity! no international shipping
We do ship internationally – the best way is US Postal Service International Flat Box rates. The shipping charge calculator is not right on our webstore (we are working to fix it) so please contact us directly at [email protected] and tell us what you want and where you want the products shipped. We can prepare a paypal invoice.
However, due to the wide variety of custom regulations etc we cannot be held responsible for custom delays etc.
Also make sure to mention Mrsaltwatertank.com when ordering (that goes for everyone!)
Thanks
DrTim
squinchyy…watching an empty tank is the worst.
Great point Byron. I always forget about those guys.
That’s what I thought at first and the reason I asked Dr. Tim directly before finalizing my purchase. I would of gotten the ammonia to feed the bacteria instead of using fish too. Hopefully whichever fish I choose to cycle with (probably my clown fish) will be okay in my 30 Gal DT with 20 Gal sump. Should I run my skimmer during this time as well? Thanks Mark!
Great website. Makes beginners like me only focus on your website to get the best answers on the Internet.
Is the process the same once you have saltwater and cured live rock in your fish tank with no fish? Do you just add the one and only and then ammonia, test for nitrates, and add fish a couple days later when the tests say its safe? I will have cured live rock and everything else ready except any fish or coral but I’m hoping this is the easiest solution to cylce before adding any livestock. I’m looking to get the one and only with ammonia package with my 75 gallon because I don’t want to risk with any fish in there at first. Thanks!
Steve Ramos – if you are going to add just a few fish there is no need to add ammonia first. If, on the other hand you plan to add a bunch of fish all at once then you should dose with ammonia to about 2 to 3 ppm. Wait a few days and measure ammonia and nitrite. Add more ammonia to get the concentration back up to 2- 3 ppm. When you can add 2 ppm ammonia and have no ammonia or nitrite after 24 hours your tank is ready for fish.
Running Skimmers – skimmers have been shown to remove a large portion of the bacteria from the aquarium water. For that reason skimmers should be shut-off for at least 6 to 8 hours after adding bacteria.
One feature of the One and Only Live Nitrifying bacteria is that they are already attached to a small particle so they sink pretty fast and very little of the bacteria are ‘loose’ in the water column where they could be removed by the skimmer.
But just to make sure all your bacteria remain in the tank we suggest turning the skimmer (and UV) off for at least 6 hours after dosing.
Brad – why do you see an ammonia spike? The true is I am not really sure. But usually you see a small ammonia spike and less often a nitrite spike (you would think it would be the other way around?).
It may be that the ammonia bacteria don’t really get to ‘work’ until they sense a certain level of ammonia in the water but this is just an educated guess.
Hey Mark…Hey Dr. Tim,
Would it be beneficial to add this bacteria to an already established reef tank?
Brice…Dr. Tim recommends adding more One and Only whenever you add a lot more fish. He also has other products to help with Cyano and hair algae.
Unless you are seeing ammonia or nitrite there is no need to add more One and Only. But I do recommend adding Waste-Away on a regular basis. The bacteria is this product remove organics, phosphate and nitrate so compete with the algae. They keep the system much clearer and help promote good water quality
Is the cycle time the same if I start with dry rock??
Ok I’ll have to give Waste-away a try! Thanks.
One more question….
Dr. Tim, I missed the first part of your presentation at MAX but what I did hear was very interesting. I just started using bio-pellets and I don’t want them to become colonized with the “wrong” bacteria. Is there a bacterial supplement you have that I can dose in my reactor to colonize my BP’s? Will they be out-competed by other bacteria?
Phillip – the cycling time should be the same between dry rock and live rock.
Brice – Thanks for comment – I would recommend the Waste-Away. I am in the process of looking at what bacteria colonize the BPs and comparing that to what’s in the water. Right now, I would not worry about the BP being colonized by bad bacteria. I hope to have more data on this in the near future.
Hey, I was just at that house this afternoon, saw the tank and met those two clown fish. I was amazed how white the sand was after the tank had only been together for a month. He didn’t even have much of a clean up crew in there yet. I’m sold on the product. Now if I could only get my wife to let me upgrade my tank size too. Sure wish I had space for that sump I saw.
Hi Mark, you run a first class site and your vidoes are real treat to follow. I’ve just ordered Dr. Tims for my new tank. Did you monitor any water parameters after adding the product and the 2 clownfish and if so what did you find?
Phil…monitor your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
You should see a small ammonia bump, MAYBE a nitrite bump, then your nitrates start to rise which indicates the cycle is ending.
Thanks Mark, understood but I was curious what you found with the tank you had setup for the evaluation. Have a great day.
Mark,How has your experiment worked out Im interested in hearing the results.
Phil..as laid out in the video, we saw a small ammonia bump and no nitrite or nitrates.
Hey any update on your new tank?, videos pictures?… just want to try but i need more info thanks. (i need to believe jajaja)