Buy it Dead, not alive
As I’ve been helping people setup their new tanks, I’ve been advising people to buy dead rock vs. live rock (LR) for their new setups. People have been asking me why I say “buy it dead” so I thought I’d put it out there for the general audience.
The simple answer is selection – you get to decide what critters you want in your tank and which ones you don’t. Live rock is great in that it comes covered with nitrifying bacteria -i.e. bacteria that converts ammonia (fish poop an pee) to nitrites and then to nitrates. However, it also comes with lots of stuff you might not see and you don’t get to decide if you want it or not. For example, a lot of members have gotten LR that has aptasia and even majanos anemone on it. Majanos can overrun a reef tank in literally days if not tended to quickly. Even if you remove the ones you see, there could be several more that you don’t see hidden in the LR that will eventually spawn new babies that will end up in your tank.
Then there are the bothersome creatures that you might not be able to see – zoa/montipora eating nudibranches, or even the feared Kraken worm that grow up to 4′ in length and eat corals for dinner. (Not kidding, here is a link to some pics of a guy who pulled one out of his tank). You won’t know these pests are in your tank until you start seeing corals disappear or bleaching which no reef keeper ever wants to see. These pests are even harder to get out because you can’t always see them as they are very small and some only come out at night. Or in the case of the Kraken worm, you have to tear apart your whole tank to get to them.
With dead rock, what you see is what you get – no critters, no pests. I advise people to buy the rock that’s been out in the sun for long enough that it’s bleach white. No chance of cling-ons except maybe the backyard ant (would die in your tank quickly). No nuisance algae/anemones/worms/freaky crawly things. On top of that, you get to watch your tank mature as the rock will change from white to brown/green/purple as beneficial bacteria and algae grow.
So “buy it dead” and avoid the headaches of tracking down nuisance pests in your tank.
Browse the Store! Questions?
How long would it take to get dry rock to live rock so that you can start adding live corals etc.
IT will take you about a week (if you use the right bacteria in a bottle product like Seachem’s Stability) to get the “alive”. At that point, you could add some hardy fish and some soft corals. For adding hard corals, I’d wait at least a month, For adding an anemone, I’d wait 6 months.
I am new to the saltwater world. I have owned a freshwater tank for years, and I was jealous of my friends saltwater tank. I just bought a 75 Gallon aquarium, 30 gallon sump, aqua euro 55 protein skimmer with a 950gph pump and an aquatic life 4×65 watt light fixture. After reading this article, I have a question for you. I have about 20lbs of cured live rock with no life on it in my tank. Actually brown algae is starting to grow b/c it has been setup for about a week now. I have a 13 gallon isolation tank with a single 20lbs live rock that has a lot of life on it. Tiny starfish, kenya trees, feather dusters, brown/green/purple algae growing on. After reading this article, what is your advise about when or if I should put it in my new tank?
Nathan…the brown algae is a diatom bloom and normal for a new tank, it’ll pass in a week or two.
What has been the purpose of the isolation tank? Is it a quarantine tank?
Yes, I plan to use it as a quarantine tank if the need arises. But my friends are telling me to not put the established rock in my new tank with the dead live rock. My other fruends say to just do it now. What is your opinion bc I do plan to put it, just don’t know the best time would be?
have you quarantined any fish in your QT tank yet?
If you have, dont put the rock in there as it could contain disease or medication.
Also, any LR in a QT tank can soak up the medication so it really shouldn’t be in there to begin with.
I’d not put the rock in your display tank (DT)…its not worth the risk. Your DT’s rock will have plenty of life on it soon…right now its just getting started.
Thank you very much! The only reason it was in the QT (old DT) tank to begin with was b/c I originally started my saltwater adventure with the 13gal tank since it was a spare tank sitting in the closet. After awhile, I decided I really enjoyed saltwater (reef junkie style) and bought the 75gal setup that I currently have. I just didn’t know when would be a good time to put the established rock in my DT since it was new.
This is really good info (I’ve been looking everywhere for it!). Thank you!!
Glad I could be of help!
Interesting. Most reefers out there swear by using LR and the importance of the critters living on (in) it. How would you get all that life other than bacteria on your rocks after starting the tank with just dead rock? Noob here. Thanks!
A couple of ways:
– pods and worms can be purchase or will come in on coral frags
– you can seed your tank with a small piece of LR if you are that concerned about critters. Keep in mind you never know what is on that rock so you are taking a risk
I’ve read that if you are just setting up a tank and have LR not cured that you can cure it through the cycling period.
Jason…this is correct. However, there are always critters that can survive the cycling period which is why I recommend 100% dead rock and cycling it to make it live rock
Thanks for putting together this very informative site!! I am trying to get my first saltwater tank set up here in the next month or so, after reading this article, you have convinced me to go the dead rock route, not only is it cheaper, but the benefits of no unwanted hitchhikers seems to be the best reason. My question is how long would you estimate before the purple Coraline algae starts to appear?
Rob,
Coraline appearing isn’t so much a function of time as it is good water parameters (good Alk, good Mg). I had coraline starting to show up within 1 month of starting my 90G tank
Mark,
What kind of dead rock would you recommend and where can I get it to start a tank?
Thanks!
Bulk Reef Supply’s Pukani rock is nice. Get it @ bulkreefsupply.com
Hi Mark,
i’ve been following your videos since August. Today I started my 100% dead rock 100G tank, when the tank is full i will start adding Probidio DIGEST and JBL Denitrol. Do you think it will cycle allright? When big question i still have, is how will coraline grow if this is only dead rock, where is coraline coming from?
I have another small aquarium, should i remove just a small porcion of coraline from it to add in the 100G??
Glad to know your opinion on this. Thanks
It should.
Coraline will come into your tank on frags, fish, water from bag these guys are in. If you have some coraline hanging around, you can put it in your tank and see what happens. Chances are till your parameters get stable, not much will happen.
Hi Mark,
Is it the same for live sand? Also I heard that dead rock is heavier. Would I need to buy more DR than I would LR?
(Very new to the salt water game)
Cheers.
John…dead rock should be very light. If the rock is heavy, then it isn’t porous and is better suited for base rock.
Here is some great dead rock that I run in my tank: http://mrswt.wpenginepowered.com/deadrock
I like sand in bags like this one: http://mrswt.wpenginepowered.com/sand. You can take a cup full of sand from someone else’s tank and move it into yours but I’m not a fan of taking a whole sand bed out and putting it into your tank. The reason is that the old sand bed has LOTS of detritus, fish poop, etc in it and when you move it, all that junk gets released into your tank.
Hello was wondering I have a 75g plex salt and just can not get rid of red slim what if any is the best way to get rid of it any ideas would be great thanks just found your site and It looks great Thanks for helping people out your friend ROBERT
Robert…a couple of ?s:
– do you have a protein skimmer? if so, what brand/make?
– are you running phosphate media?
– what are you tank’s nitrates/phosphate levels?
– how many fish do you have in there?
– is the red slime all over or just in certain areas?
– do you have a cleanup crew?
I just purchased some dead rock from bulk reef supply and talk about some amazing chunks of rock. Only down side is pieces are a little on the huge side but nothing i cant break apart and get the perfect layout. I just have a question how often do I have to do water changes when cycling the dead rock. I hear from a lot of people curing dead rock makes you’re house smell of death and I just want to try and avoid this.
BRS has some nice LR.
I cycled my rock in my tank/house and no smell of death here. Make sure you protein skimmer is up and running well. That’ll help the cycle along.
Also, use a bacteria in a bottle product like: mrsaltwatertank.com/stability. It will cycle your tank in days v. weeks. I used it on my 90G and my cycle was done in 4 days.
As far as water changes while cycling, I’d do a normal 5% a week. The only reason I’d go heavy water changes is if you see large nitrate spike.
I did order that bacteria after reading the posts above. I get it at the end of the week should I go by the recommended doses on the bottle? Thank you for your response I have been following all your steps with this new tank so i don’t make the same mistakes. I really enjoy watching tips every friday while drinking my morning coffee keep them coming 🙂
Hi Mark, first I want to say that I have been all over the internet and of course you tube for I don’t know how long looking for some good advise when low and behold I came across one of your videos, I think you are a god send for the new and even the not so new saltwater aquarist.
Here is my question, I’m debating on live sand or bare bottom for my 75gal tank that I’m reseting up, I just started the cycle today, bare in mind I didn’t see this thread on dead or alive until tonight after I purchased 36lbs of LR just today so what is your suggestion on live sand or bare bottom or even a suitable alternative.
Kevin – the sandbed (SB) or bare bottom (BB) debate is a fierce one with some roots in science and some preference. Here is my stance on them:
– SandBed – should be 2″ or less. I’m not a fan of deep sand beds, nor am I a fan of sand beds between 2-4″ which tend to be detritus traps. 2″ of less gives you a bed for biological filtration and is shallow enough that detritus can move through it easily. Make sure you have a good cleanup crew including a sea cucumber that will turn over your sandbed.
– Bare Bottom – lots of people like BB tanks b/c they think any sand is a detritus trap and therefore bad. For the most part, SPS nuts like BB tanks claiming their water stays cleaner w/out sand. I run a 2″ sand bed in my tank and my water quality is perfect.
Personally, I don’t like BB tanks b/c I don’t like the looks of them. I prefer a sand layer.
My vote is for shallow sand beds.
Dustin…I follow the directions on the bottle with great success.
Thanks for the kind words about the vids..I’ll keep ’em coming!
If I would have only found this bit of information back like 8 or 9 years ago… haha
I started with a 29 gallon and then upgraded to a 90 after a while and of course it wasn’t til a while after I had the 90 setup that I even considered the idea that it would have been smarter to go with dead rock rather than live. Aside from the issue of nuisance organisms it would have been sooooooooo much cheaper!! When I think of the fact that I actually paid $5-10 / lb. for a little over 100lbs of live rock it just frustrates the heck out of me. haha Anyone debating live vs. dead… go with the dead! You’ll save yourself LOTS of $$$$ and lots of headache!
Thanks for the great info, Mark!!
Betillo…don’t feel too horrible, I used to pay up to $11/# for live rock. Totally stupid, totally insane.
We live and learn though.
Hello Mark caugh a few of your videos today and would like to ask a few questions. I am planning on starting a reef tank but not sure to buy new or a used one. If i go with a used that saves you some money as most come with the stand. Can i succeed by getting a used tank from some of the lfs or is this a bad idea? your suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Dennis…I only buy new tanks. If your tank goes, no matter how clean your water is and how good of a shape your livestock is in, you are hosed. Your tank is the last thing between you and a major flood.
Spend the money and buy new.
Hey Mark, thanks for all you do!
I am such a noob, my tank is only two months old. I have a 16gal bowfront tank I got at petco for a few hundred bucks about five years ago. I have only ever had gold fish in it and well…boring!
Just before thanksgiving I went into a little family owned pet store just to check things out and I left with a bucket of salt and the book “Salt water aquariums for dummies”. lol.
I’m actually really glad I took the plunge because I have discovered what a joy and budding passion I have for this hobby.
Anyway, Im rambling, my question is this; I have about 10lbs of live rock in my tank and every week it seems something new sprouts on my rock. I have four (what I call “feather dusters”?) a snail (very small one, I mean tiny, like pea sized) and some other unidentified fuzy things with “teticle like” things protruding from them.
Ok so now for the actual question…how do I know what is “good” life and if any of these critters and fuzzies are “pests” or “unwanted”? I have yet to find any pics of anything like what Ive got on the web, then again, Im not exactly sure what to search for. :/
Can you help me out?
Peace,
Adina
whut are the best spf to start out with in my 100 gal reef tank
Hello mark,
thanks for all the fantastic information packed videos you are posting, they are a great help. I am a novice reef keeper looking to set up a 90 gallon with totally using dead rock. Around 35 kg to 40 kg i thought. With an aragonite sand bottom.
We in the UK have dead rock which is termed as reef bones, this comes in various forms depending on its origin. coral skeleton plating rock and some larger chunk shaped rock, they all have a bleached out white appearance. You can check out the appearance on this website http://www.firststopaquatics.co.uk/acatalog/index.html
I have read various threads with regards to to the dangers of using dead rock if not prepared correctly, that is phosphate leaching from the dead organics trapped in the dead rock leading to massive disastrous algae outbreaks. to avoid this happening procedures such as dipping the dead rock in acid, or vinegar and bleach are being recommended prior to washing and then soaking the rock in rodi water for weeks with regular changes and circulation pumps in use. prior to introducing the dead rock to the display aquarium.
I would really appreciate your thoughts on this matter as i am quite confused as to which avenue to take in terms of the preparation of the dead rock.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Kindest Regards.
Naeem.
How to kill,live rock the fastest& easiest way?
I hv afew live rocks,but after reading ur articles&comments.emm..can u tell me how to kill em all?
take them outside and leave them in the sun for a couple of weeks. Works every time.
Naeem…I’ve never had an issue with the rocks leaching out organics, but if you were concerned, I’d buy a rock or two and soak it in RO/DI water. After it has soaked for several hours, measure the phosphates and see what you get.
Continually soaking the rocks in RODI would work. Chances are there will always been some stuff trapped in the rocks and if your tank is setup right, then anything in there will be handled by your system.
Algae outbreaks are nearly always the result of poor husbandry, not rocks leaching substances.
Hi Mark,
I will give that a shot with the rock soaked in RODI, i thought the acid dip was a bit of an overkill, probably destroyed the rock.
Thanks for the tip and keep up the good work.
Best Regards.
Naeem.
Thanks alot Mark.
Hi Mark,
I actually bought a 30gallon tank for my saltwater fish only.This is going to be the 1st saltwater tank of my life..Planning to pile up abt 7kilos of dead rocks.my sump is about the same size as my actual tank.My questions are as follows;
1)how many fishes can i put in?
2)how many bioballs i need?
3)do i need ceramics?if yes,how many?
4)what kind of sponge or cotton is best?
These questions sounds stupid but i hope u can answer all of it & some useful tips for a start,perhaps.thanks bro.
As a follow up comment and another stress to the benefit of going dead vs. live… the dreaded kraken worm… I recently found one in my tank.. I can’t figure out how big he is, but it is FAST!! I was using a flashlight to try and find a serpent star that hitchhiked its way into my tank on a coral and saw it sticking out of my rockwork.. I moved and in a split second it was gone.. I wonder if there’s a trap I can make to catch him…
Of course the kicker is that I just got my tank resituated with some new coral frags, changed my rockwork around, and added a sump/fuge/skimmer. So.. now that I’ve got all the rockwork and corals where I want them… I’m probably gonna have to tear down again at some point… BOO!
your best bet is to find the rock he sleeps in and pull it out during the day when it is hiding.
I know you just redid your tank, but it is better to handle the problem now before all your corals grow in and you don’t want to touch anything!
Syed-
1: How many fish depends on the type and what you want them to do. Whatever you do, don’t put a tang in there.
2. You don’t need any bio balls
3. You don’t need ceramics
4. You don’t need a sponge
Yeah, I hear ya… I’m pretty sure I’ve got an idea of one or two rocks he might be in.. I know the general vicinity where he was and there are only two larger rocks there so I’m assuming it would have to be one of the two… what would you suggest I do.. just take them out and leave them outside on the sidewalk? or possibly, just put them in a tub of freshwater and see what happens/if he comes out?
That’s gd to hear,Mark.thanks anyway.
By the way,I’ve been looking closely,almost all ur terrific Utube videos.But I’m unable to look inside ur sump tank clearly.can u tell me,what do u hv besides water pump & skimmer?Best if u could upload a video closing up on ur sumptank.thanks bro..
OK, I understand and appreciate the advice,now what about sand when you are setting up your tank? Live or dead and why ? …… Yes I will be adding corals, but the easy to keep ones.
I have been in this world for a year. I have seen just about all of your shows. I am a really big fan of you So dead rock can become live again.